I'm not seeing any overstatement, just differing definitions.

I think where gman21 is referring to new objects, he means new models. New meshes. Ranging from "add pots and pans" to "things that should never be found in high fantasy." Whereas Iudas is talking about new objects as in unique objects. As in, taking one of the keys and making a copy of it in the CS, so it has a new ID and new things can be done with it, script-wise and dialogue-wise (the most important point being that it doesn't open the same thing as the original key). Unique object identification is perfectly in line with the game (as long as you don't assign a piece of armor 99999999 defensive value) and is a practice of good modding. (Prevents the dirty build-up.)

Good news! A friend helped me out with the computer stuff and I'm back and running good as new so I'm once again available for any beta testig if needed.

Any news on this one?

Still working on it, I thought I would have it ready for beta today but it will be a few more days, I added a few minor things to it. When it is ready to roll out you will be assimilated into the beta. Congrats on getting a new machine and getting up and running.

okaaaaaaaaay .... how's this mod coming along?

only thing I can add is a note of caution, 'cause you're trying to add 30 homes to the game? and trying not to cause conflicts with any other mod?

how 'bout some lil island home mods, caribbean style, sans hurricanes .... vacation real estate for a person to chill for a while, complete with innocent and impressionable island natives to beguile with a compliment (and high speechcraft skill) ... sandy beaches are so much more fun when they're shared.

just curious

This post has been edited by Salamandar: Oct 12 2004, 10:55 AM

Not 30, 50+ and they are already in the game. Hovels, houses, apartments, velothi towers, plantations all of them exist in the game as she ships, no new content. Just fixing it so that the PC can "legally" live in and sleep in and use the storage in these houses.
Quick examples: Seyda Neen, if you do the Murdered Tax collector quest, andif you kill Foryn Gilnith and report to Ergala for your reward, he now also clears it with the local authorities for you to live in that hovel and legally use the storage there ( no stolen tag applied to items you store in what were F Gilniths containers ) Of course if you do this, later in the game his sister will NOT let you share her apartment in Vivec City. Still in SN if you do the V Nuccius quest and buy his cursed ring, he now offers to sell you the key and deed to his house. Again legal sleeping and storage. Other things, there are three pack guars in MW that will now have companion share added in certain circumstances so Rollie and Corky can now become the Player's pack mules or you can sell them to Drulene. 50+ places to live and store including some rather nice apartments in Vivec City itself. Of course if you want to live in those Velothi Domes the rogue Telvanni have appropriated you might expect them to be just a wee bit stronger smarter and nastier than they were in the original game. Other changes, Farmers and Plantation owners now own their crops in the fields, merchants own their outdoor storage containers in Balmora and other places.
Shooting for a testable edition complete this week.

This post has been edited by Iudas: Oct 12 2004, 08:28 PM

I understand better now. Nifty concept!. Thanks for the clarification, and best wishes to you for this mod's bug-free release.

Excellent, looks like I finished that clean install just in time.

And it looks like I got my new machine just in time, too.

I sound slightly sadistic here, but I think a great idea would be to make it so that owning a home requires you to pay a tax each (x amount of days).

If you fail to pay the tax or whatever, your criminal record would increase by how much you get behind in your taxes.

Oh and, my first post here.

Congrats, kaseki, on your first post, and welcome to the forums, kiddo

Taxes ... ewwwwwww .... and it's a fantasy game to escape reality for a while. Sorries, but I'd rather not have to pay taxes in Morrowind, too. I like the mod as it is, thank you very much.

It is a fine idea, and has been discussed and worked on in several of the threads dealing with balancing the economics of the game.
I will be including apartment rental costs but only as a flat one time fee. Likewise House Deed purchases from various NPC's again as a one time cost.

I'm wondering what the status of this mod is, and where i could snag a copy of it because I like how it's sounding

Well you can't snag a copy of it yet, because it's still in development AFAIK. Iudas is a perfectionist after all.

Iudas is very slow. The work has been idle for the last 10 days, I have a real world commission that is eating time; but should put a few months shekels in my wallet.
Where it stands: some scripting left to do, the diseases from sleeping in caves still needs work, The triubnal temple housing manager and his dialog and scripts need work (6 apartments in Vivec cantons), all the dialog has to be tested. What is done: external containers in cities are now owned, plantation crops are now owned by the appropriate farmers ( imperial cults quests still work), 3 pack guar now have the tribunal companion share option after the related misc. quests are completed, telvanni rogue towers are now a rigorous battle not a walk in the park (NPCs and creatures upgraded and very hostile to non telvanni). The total number of potential, legal, ingame domiciles for the PC looks to be 48 including one whole ship and squatters permission on another ship. ( Dren Plantation and Yingling manor will not be.)
No eta

I suppose a minor distraction like real life is acceptable, as long as it helps drive the engines of morrowind industry.

Oh, I had thought you had the disease thing sorted. Major conundrum or merely tweaking?

Upgraded Telvanni? That's a new feature if I'm not mistaken, though a welcome addition none-the-less.

Was dropping the manors prompted by roleplay or technical considerations? Either way I'm happy, it would seem a little implausible the authorities would allow one to take over three srongholds.

Very astute, make no promises, then we can't break them.

Tweaking the diseases and the script and minor conundrum.
Most Rogue Telvanni towers had 4 or 5 inept Telvanni NPC's ( who were supposed to be Necromancers) and a bunch of respawning rats and skels. Now the Telvanni are not so inept and really are Necromancers and the respawns have been replaced with Lichs and wormlords and other similar nasties but they don't respawn. Reason being that once you own the place, respawning critters make no sense and intrude on your sleep.

Yingling manor was dropped for roleplay. The House Hlaalu quest allows you to kill him but by that time your own stronghold is started and he has three Hlaalu subordinates in his house that you would probably have to kill. The thieves guild Bal momager quests don't require the PC to kill him and actually give the PC the option of screwing both parties. Likewise the Morag Tong GrandMaster Writs one of which is to kill Dram Bero, I just didn't think that the MT GM would take over the Haunted Manor as a domicile. So again roleplay.
Dren plantation for realism, Duke Dren may have to make the PC the Head of House Hlaalu if the PC kills Orvas; that is House politics. I just don't see Vedam giving the PC the Dren Plantation as a reward for killing the Duke's Brother; that is family and blood is thick even when blood is a rat.
The PC can still own Gro-Bagrat plantation but you know those skooma smugglers have some nasty protections and might be a wee bit more capable than they were in the original game.
One promise I can make, it will require Trib and BM. No way around it. No Lichs in MW no traps in MW.

This post has been edited by Iudas: Oct 30 2004, 12:21 AM

Very commendable scheme, all around. Except...one would expect a Necromancer to know how to bring *himself* back from the dead, at least. Even if suddenly and unexpectedly killed. Thoughts?


Also commendable. The less interference with the in-game quests, main or otherwise, the better IMHO. Perhaps a piece of real estate may be assigned as an additional reward *after* completing one of the quests, in addition to completing a few other steps (I know, we have been over this before) such as Nunncius and his ring in Seyda Neen. That guarantees zero interference and also provides players with added incentive to go through other in-game quests.


My original contention still stands: if the player obtains any kind of legal control over something like a plantation, there is an expectation of suitable income from the job that it's probably best not to thwart. It's the difference between owning a residence and supervising an apartment complex. Even though you may live in both, the former only generates money (equity) by shifts in the housing market, while the latter requires active management -- it's a business concern first and foremost, after all. Thus, a plantation in the player's control is probably too much Economics 101 for most players to enjoy, why not purchase the game Railroad Tycoon instead. So I agree that these plots of land are best left forever out of the player's reach. (Anyone who wants to own a Morrowind business should try other mods, such as Baratheon79's inn.) It's not as if -- realistically -- there could truly be a shortage of people willing to manage the plantations...NPC people with a better claim of ownership than the player, that is. As for Gro-Bagrat, its main industry is skooma anyhow, so it's been removed from the legal side of normal market operations entirely.


Agreed. I guess we shall just have to continue waiting...

so anyone want to speculate as to what property has been given the ability to be bought by the PC in this mod?

1 in Ald Velothi:
The Ship The Fair Helas - One of the TwinLamps quests in House Hlaalu.

3 in Ald-Ruhn:
Ienas Sarandas' house - Misc quest for Ald-Ruhn.
Drinar Varyon's House - Either of an Imperial Legion or House Hlaalu quest.
Hanarai Assutlanipal's house - House Redoran quest.

1 An Abandoned Shack:
Go walkabout and find it, a rumour has been added to the Gnaar Mok residents.

6 in Balmora:
Balyn Omarel's house - Morag Tong Quest.
Caius Cossades' house - Main Quest ( modified the ownership on the chests, after he leaves for the mainland. )
Vorar Helas' house - Misc. quest Hla Oad.
Dura Gra-Bols' house - FG quest.
Hlaalo Manor - House Hlaalu quest, can also be found by going walkabout.
Nine-Toes' house - Tied in with the Hlaalo Manor quest.

1 in Caldera:
Elmussa Danori's house - House Hlaalu quest.

1 in Dagon Fel:
Sorkvild's tower - IL quest, go walkabout, a bed added.

1 in Dren Plantation:
Dren Villa - House Hlaalu quest, Main Quest.

1 in Gnaar Mok:
Nadene Rotherman's shack - Romance quest.

1 in Gro-Bagrat Plantation
Go walkabout, an IC quest sends you close to it.

2 in Maar Gan:
Huleen's hut - Mages' Guild ( there is no Huleen. )
Tashpi Ashbael's hut - Mages' Guild.

1 in Sadrith Mora:
Nevilla Areloth's house - Go walkabout, Camonna Tong rumour for Sadrith Mora has been changed.

2 in Seyda Neen:
Foryn Gilnith's shack - Misc. quest Seyda Neen.
Vodunius Nuccius' house - Misc. quest Seyda Neen.

Vivec: All empty Vivec apts can be rented from the Temple Housing
Manager. All vivec apts that become empty due to death of renter can be rented from the Temple Housing Manager. Check the notices on the doors. The PC can have a very large set of apartments in Vivec should that be desired.

5 in Vivec, St.Delyn's:
Canal North 2 - 6th house base in Vivec.
Canal South 2 - Thieves' Guild quest.
Canal South 3 - Threads of the Webspinner quest.
Waist North 1 - empty apartment; if you don't count the ghost.
Waist North 2 - empty apartment ...ready for renting.

3 in Vivec, St. Olms':
Canal South 2 - Fighters' Guild quest.
Waist North 2 - only if the Player did not kill ********* (spoiler)
Yngling Manor - House Hlaalu quest or Bal Momager quest.

5 elsewhere in Vivec:
Morag Tong Headquarters - Grandmaster status gets sleeping and storage.
Mages' Guild Headquarters - ditto
Fighters' Guild Headquarters - ditto
Thieves Guild meeting place - no changes, they only meet here.
Temple Archcanon's office - no changes.

2 in Mournhold:
Vacant Manor - Misc. quest Mournhold.
Velas Manor - Misc. quest Mournhold.

1 in Solstheim:
Uncle Sweetshare's shack - Misc. Quest Fort Frostmoth.

12 out in the countryside of Vvardenfell:
Odirniran - House Hlaalu and House Telvanni quests.
Shishi - House Redoran and House Telvanni quests.
Mabibi - Go walkabout.
Shishara - ditto
Hanud - ditto
Sanni - ditto
Ald Redaynia - Thieves guild quest or go walkabout. Bed added.
Shara - Morag Tong quest or go walkabout.
Vas - Fighters' Guild quest or go walkabout.
Mawia - Mages' Guild quest or go walkabout.
Sulipund - Mages' Guild quest or go walkabout.
The Ship Grytewake - House Hlaalu quest go walkabout.

------------------

Iudas sent me the first draft of the readme, so there could be some changes by the final release version.

Changes to the houses:

1) Nine Toe's House. The PC can never own it, but he can find it completely inaccessible if certain things happen in a related quest. ( Yes I did the Yellow Police Tape idea )

2) Hlaalo Manor can end up completely inacessible ( and the maid ends up on the street homeless and in despair) if certain things happen in a certain way; or it can become a really fine domicile for the early-mid game stages ( with a maid.)

3)Dren Plantation.... removed for realism purposes. ( but )

4) If the situation arises that would trigger the realism for the Dren Plantation, then Ilmeni Dren's apartment in Vivec becomes rentable, and she moves to the Dren Plantation.

5) Yingling manor, removed. Too many ways to play the quests involving Mr Half-Troll. He is involved in MQ, HH, Bal Momager, and the diseased fighting rats quest.

6) Drinar Varyon's house: Both the HH and IL quests must lead to a specific result for the PC to get the use of the house.

7) Gro-Bagrat Plantation: Killer Skooma dealing Orcs. Do Not mess with the pusher man at low levels.

8) Rogue Telvanni Towers and Ald Redaynia: Killer Telvanni Necromancers and one really angrified Skeleton War Wizard who now has some deadly spells. The Telvanni are uniformly hostile toward any non telvanni.

9) Ordirniran and Shishi still working on these two ... the PC can end up on either side of the issues here and I want to make sure that nothing breaks any great house quest lines.

10) Gildane's house in Caldera the PC can now sleep in the bed the door situation has been corrected. (from the Gaps in Gameplay thread)

11) Gnaar Mok Nadene's place: Still working on this one, it may be removed from the list.

It's not really buying the houses. Several of them you will get the deed to the house from the current owner for either payment or because you did a "good" thing, others you get squatter's rights, others the Powers That Be suggest that you can use the places as a reward, others you get to pay a rental fee and still others are yours by force of arms/wit. The point is that in all of them you will be able to sleep legally and store goods in the containers without the goods picking up the stolen tag. In No Case has the ownership of loose stuff been changed. The owner might be dead or gone but the stuff is still his/hers ( plates, napkins, weapons, etc. ), there are heirs and probate issues. ( translation: Too damn much fiddling for too little return )
This all started because I had obtained honestly the ebony mail and stored it in a chest in one of the houses I was squatting ( Vodunius Nuccius House in Seyda Neen.) Some time later I had the mail in inventory and picked up a 5 septim bounty. Paid the bounty and found almost everything I had was removed as stolen goods. I knew that none of the items had been stolen so I went looking for the reason they picked up the stolen tag. ( Only reason I got the bounty was because I was trying to make trespassing actually have some meaning.)

Ha ha, thanks! I can't wait to see that one in action.


You meanie, you couldn't just move her to another mansion's employ??? (j/k) Well, I guess that's better than putting her in one of the jail cells at Fort Moonmoth, to await trial for the murder of her boss.


Ahhhh, that's a great workaround. Fan-ta-bu-lous.


Very sensible.


Possible bounties for the player, for clearing up these messes? Or will the housing be enough?


You could set the completion of the quest lines as being a precursor condition for getting these. That encourages people to play more of the in-game side / misc quests.


Another patch from the thread put into use. Very nice.


I could not agree more. Players can still clear out unwanted personal items from any of these places, and not obtain permanent bounties on their heads, if they are creative enough. Leaving those items alone also reinforces the reality of moving into housing that was used by someone else. Just because they leave stuff behind, doesn't give you carte blanche license to own it, sell it, or destroy it.

All in all very impressive. A significant upgrade from the first draft's readme. I am glad to see that everything in these continuing discussions about improving MW is getting modded up, one way or another.

err... sorry I didnt mean buy as in "Oh this is mine now to do as I please", rather buy as in "I've got the right to sleep/store my stuff here" but thats a whole lot of places. although some speculation would have been fun having the whole list is cool. that adandoned shack wouldnt be the one near Hia Oad or that one further north, gnar mok or something (excuse my spelling) would it, if ya dun mind my asking

This post has been edited by advoicate: Nov 4 2004, 04:05 PM

Yes it is. The one and only abandoned shack in the game. Nothing had to be changed in it. So I added a rumour to the dialog of the nearby NPC's.

About the Hlaalo maid, it just didn't seem right leaving her in the mansion if the police tape goes up. So I moved her out to the street, and made her a wee bit unhappy with the PC.

About the Gro Bagrat and rogue Telvanni. I have added some Dialog to Duke Dren for the one situation and am working on some Dialog for King Helseth for the other. Minor rewards and bumps to Rep. Not exactly quests but if you hit them in a certain order they might smell like quests.

Still having some issues with Nadene's shack. I know that at least once when I did the Romance quest, Nadene was in the shack when my char had to off the comatose tong dude who was bothering ahnassi. ( Nadene and the three other CT members ended up morté) But the last time I did the quest she was not in the shack. If she is in the shack then obtaining the shack makes sense ... but if she isn't then it doesn't.

Yeah...I know...but since I already have the readme's first draft, I couldn't speculate at all. I'd just have to sit by and watch, in silence, as everyone else has fun speculating -- and I couldn't do that.

ha ha ha ha well ok, so how well is the first draft, if you've got a copy of the .esp?

Eh? No, that's literally ALL I've got: the 1st draft of the readme. No .esp file, just a Word document. From way back when the idea for this mod was still being hammered out. That list of all the housing options represents about half of the text, and all of you see how much has changed since then.

I tried to write out what I wanted the mod to accomplish, Ceno was kind enough to participate in the discussion and add large amounts of vision and expertise. The result of that was the first draft of the readme with the list of places that I could find that made "fantasy" sense along with some thoughts on how I wanted the mod to work.
That is what Ceno is referring to. The only existing esp is the wip here on my machine.

I just realized why I like this mod idea so much. This will be the mod for people who want their own housing, but do not want to insert ANY custom-built homes into their game. Why? For fear of causing a conflict with any other mod that upgrades towns, such as Balmora Expanded or the LGNPC projects. Okay, you could probably meet that same goal with a Bottle home, but this is a list of FIFTY residences! So they don't have dancing girls and an alchemy sorter...you can't find a use for even one of them?

EDIT: Iudas is too kind. My principal contribution has been to keep this thread alive. What "expertise" I've been able to bring to the table is my scant exposure to the realities of markets, real estate, probate, and zoning kickbacks.

EDIT 2: Not that I have anything against custom house mods. But anyone who uses one set in, say, Balmora, is going to have to choose between losing the house or playing without BE. This mod will prevent the necessity of making such a hard call. Choice...this is all about choice.

This post has been edited by Cenobite: Nov 9 2004, 05:14 AM

so does anyone have a timeline as to when this will be done or in beta?

so i'll take that as a no?

That is correct. Iudas has those two character flaws that plague every good modder: (1) He undertakes a project and sometimes can't stop adding things to it. (2) He fiddles with it to the point of perfection, then tweaks it some more. Then he isn't satisfied with it again, so it's time for more fiddling.

You'll have to forgive Iudas for not answering you right away, advoicate. He seems to spend more time working on mods than surfing message boards. Perhaps an overlooked third quality of most good modders, eh Cenobite? Anyway he'll pop in whenever he gets a break I'm sure and let us know what's new.




This post has been edited by Omaru: Nov 13 2004, 08:59 AM

Well spoken, Omaru...

It does serve a modder to stay in touch with the forum, because of all the advances in modding that get displayed here. Even just recently, I've seen advances in Better Bodies, reflective textures, glowmapping, one-vs.-two-handed spears, and a new trick to make NPCs lie down on beds as though they were actually sleeping.

I remember a certain total-conversion team, who left these forums for over a year, just to focus their energies on the mod. And then they came back to announce the TC's release -- and were surprised to see that they were no longer state of the art...

So I believe some balance between modding and posting is needed. Iudas does that well.

Oops, I mustn't have been paying attention, because I've no idea what the innovations with reflective textures, glowmapping or lieing down NPCs are! I better get reading.

That's not a new trick, it was used it Children of the Night 1!

do the people look realistic while lying down?

Yes. I thought it was new, back when Zich came in here a month ago to introduce his new mod. (That was before the threads degenerated into anticipation of a script extender that never materialized.) He had a picture of a person lying in a bed, and no one knew how it was done, so I asked him directly.

***************************

Begin Mkb_PatientScript2

playGroup KnockOut

if ( OnActivate == 1 )
MessageBox, "She is sleeping."
return
endif

end

***************************

Attach this script to an NPC, and they will fall forward and just lie there, breathing heavily. (The same animation file for when someone loses a fight in hand-to-hand combat, or gets Fatigued to the point where they can't stand up anymore.) I've tried it and the script works. Two drawbacks: one is that the condition is permanent, so if you want to make like the NPC "woke up" later, you have to swap out the sleeping NPC for a non-scripted one. The other drawback is that the first time you enter the sleeping NPC's cell, you can hear them grunt in pain as they fall down. It takes a tweak on the voice setting to change that.

Same thing that was used in CotN.

So what was that TC you're talking about?

I can't remember the name. But there was a huge flame war in the release thread. The team was like "we have been away, now we are back, we have labored for your game experience, here is what we have to offer, witness our glory" and the forum was like "eh, there's nothing new here, what the sheol are you guys talking about?" and the team (leader?) responded by dissing one or more existing TCs as being not able to hold a candle to their work...the flame war was on, after that. This was probably 2-3 months ago.

Was it that "Empire of Bortiis" thingy? I'm sure I'd have heard if a TC had been released recently...

You know what...now that I'm thinking on it some more...it may not have been a full REL thread, just one of those teaser "we are at 98% development ready to release, here are our details and screenshots so you may delete every other mod on your hard drive to make room for our magnificence" threads. I stayed out of the thread as soon as the flame war got underway. (There might even have been more than one thread, I'm fairly sure the first one got locked.) The name is not ringing a bell.

Ah... presumably either:

1. All their hard drives crashed
2. They decided we were undeserving of their brilliance and left
3. They mailed the mod to someone and deleted the backups, the mailed mod being lost in the post.

I believe it was El Niño that did them in. Surely it couldn't have been anything we said.

But my original point still stands. For example, anyone who hasn't been to the forum in the last week doesn't know about all of the new dancing animations by RX31...is not getting all this great advice on how to change your moon textures (thanks Lochy)...and might even still be looking for a place to do uploads or downloads. The good modder has to keep on top of the state of the modding art, and Iudas is definitely there...

Well, to be honest, this is a long absence for him, too, and I am starting to get worried.

Me too, he hasn't been on in a month. I hope he hasn't done himself a damage.

so does anyone know about the status of this mod?

Well I hope Iudas is ok, has anyone heard from him?

This post has been edited by advoicate: Dec 28 2004, 03:36 PM

Am I the last person interested in this mod?

No, I am also interested...I just don't see the point of making any comments when Iudas isn't even logging into the forum anymore.

Ditto . . . Last Active - 12th November 2004 - 09:28 AM

Wow, I've been gone for a while from MW and was hoping to start a new game with this mod. Disturbing that he's been gone for so long without warning. I hope things are ok. Hopefully even if he's given up on the modding he'll stop by sometime and let us know.

Yeah, I hope he's ok. Ah well if anyone hears anything from him PM me please?

I hope he hasnt died

Well damn I guess we can call this mod scraped, I hope that this isnt the case but it is February. If anyone hears anything about this mod or something like it would you pm me please?

This post has been edited by advoicate: Feb 6 2005, 12:01 PM

Better yet, post it here?

I was just going to suggest the idea of rentable homes for the player. In other words, instead of selling houses in Vivec, the player simply rents them from the council (via a script that deducts money from the player's inventory on a monthly basis)

Oh well.

Did anyone else pick this idea up to work on it or was that another of Iudas' ideas?

Hmm... Interesting... Your post bumped this back up to where I would see it... Funny thing is, I started a similar mod a few weeks ago. Not the same, as the houses I would make would be new, but there would be a house (or a residence of some type) in each town/city. Most would have a quest attached, in order to earn the house. Just posted this to see if there was still interest in a mod of this type.

This project was purely Iudas' AFAIK.

You may be thinking of the Latest Rumours / Gaps in Gameplay threads, in which Iudas was compiling incongruities with a view that others might work on these issues.

The original threads have been trimmed;
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10691
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16197

Fortuitously Cliffworms recently started a topic to resurect the idea, and reposted much of the substance of Iudas' threads;
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=75080

I think PirateLord already tackled some of the issues on the list?

Thank you - for all the good info.

I hope Iudas comes back and finishes this as it had considerable meat to it and seemed to fit in nicely.

Thank you - for all the good info.

I hope Iudas comes back and finishes this as it had considerable substance to it and seemed to fit in nicely.